Key Takeaways from 'A View from the Top'
At Podcast Movement 2024, I had a great group of podcast leaders join me for our 10th “A View from the Top” panel, including Ross Adams (CEO, Acast), Dan Misener (Co-founder, Bumper Media,) Andrew Mason (Founder/CEO, Descript) Elsie Escobar (Director of Community and Content, Libsyn), and Farid Haji (Senior Director – Partnership, The Roost Podcast Network)
This all-star group shared invaluable perspective into the podcasting industry at a critical juncture, where the surge in video content, technological innovations, and shifting audience dynamics are reshaping the landscape. Here's a recap of some of their insights framing the future of our industry.
The Changing Audience Landscape – the rise of video
I wanted seasoned podcaster and educator OG Elsie Escobar on the panel after seeing her remarkable LinkedIn post a few weeks before Podcast Movement highlighting the growing importance of video in podcasting. Elsie urged legacy podcasters to inhale and exhale. She noted that many new podcasters are now approaching the medium with video as a central component from the outset. Elsie, who traditionally preferred audio, acknowledged that "a growing number of new podcasters are now going into the medium with video in mind from the very beginning."
Elsie discussed the generational shift in podcast audiences and how this is influencing content strategies. She noted that younger listeners are more visually oriented and engage with podcasts through platforms like YouTube and TikTok. This shift requires podcasters to diversify their content across multiple platforms to reach these new audiences effectively.
Farid Haji from the Roost Podcast Network added that legacy audiences, who have been consuming podcasts primarily through traditional audio platforms for over a decade, are in a way, beginning to age out. In contrast, new audiences are discovering podcasts through video-first platforms, driving a significant shift in how content is produced and distributed. Farid emphasized the importance of adapting to these changes saying, "It’s not an either-or situation; it’s about meeting the audience where they are."
Alex Cooper, host of the popular podcast "Call Her Daddy," was cited as an example of someone who successfully taps into a younger, more vibrant audience by including video which was added when she moved the show to Spotify in 2021.
Although Descript was founded as an audio editing service, its founder, Andrew Mason said most of their clients are now editing video. “It’s now the bigger part of Descript’s business.”
For those uncomfortable with the arc to video, Farid drew a parallel to how early artists using watercolors were dismissed by traditionalists but over time it became a widely accepted art form. Farid suggested that video in podcasting is undergoing a similar transition: "We’re learning what this new medium can do, just like with watercolors in the 19th century.”
Elsie added, “I must be able to discern how to guide the everyday podcasters, what are the best choices for you and your work, and also to help you not freak out about the fact that, oh my God, I'm not doing video. Am I going to fail? No, you're cool.”
Multi-platform as a new way of thinking
Ross Adams runs Acast, the fourth largest podcast company and the leading pure-play independent. They are embracing multiple platforms.
Ross elaborated on the need to adapt to this new reality: "For us, it’s about how we monetize the podcaster's audience. "This involves creating solutions that meet audiences where they are, whether that’s on a podcast app, YouTube, or even TikTok. The aim is to create a seamless experience for both the listener and the advertiser, regardless of the platform.”
He said, “Podcasters might have more audiences engaging in short-form content because times change, people are “time precious,” and they want to consume media in different ways. So, we’ve got to figure out if that audience is less valuable to an advertiser and that means evolving and translating advertising formats to engage with audiences wherever they are.”
Ross added, “We look at TikTok as a big platform for promotion to gain audience. But it's not RSS. It works in a different way.”
Engagement vs. Reach
The distinction between traffic and audience was a recurring theme throughout the panel. Dan Misener, co-founder of Bumper, stressed the importance of building a loyal audience over merely driving traffic. "Anybody can get traffic. You can go buy traffic… but it's incredibly difficult to get and build an audience over time," Dan stated, highlighting the value of sustained, meaningful engagement.
Dan also discussed the shift from traditional download metrics to more sophisticated measures of audience interaction, such as time spent listening and verified user data. He explained, "This distinction between did a file land on somebody’s device versus did anybody actually spend time with this? Did they listen for 10 seconds? Did they listen for five minutes? Did they listen for three hours, and did they come back again and again? These metrics provide a more accurate picture of a podcast's impact and its potential for monetization.”
Dan noted he is seeing more traffic on platforms like YouTube due to their massive reach. However, the depth of engagement is often lower than on traditional audio-first platforms. He explained you can get more people on YouTube, but they won’t spend as much time with you on a per-episode basis. This trade-off is crucial for podcasters to understand as they navigate the evolving media landscape.
Dan added, “I worry a lot about the conflation of audience and traffic. A lot of us have been chasing traffic. We've seen how volatile and the ruin that lies down that path. We're still seeing downloads going down, but we're seeing engagement steadily going up.”
The Evolution of Podcast Monetization
Ross highlighted the immense growth potential in the U.S. podcast market, describing it as the "epicenter of podcasting," with a market size significantly larger than other regions like the UK.
He pointed out that dynamic ad insertion (DAI) technologies allow for more targeted advertising and have become essential in the industry. "The technologies that we launched ten years ago have been slow in adoption, but they are fully adopted now," Ross explained, emphasizing how DAI has become a standard for podcast monetization. Enabling more precise audience targeting has significantly enhanced the effectiveness, efficiency, and profitability of podcast advertising. These capabilities are considered essential as advertisers increasingly demand advanced targeting and measurement tools. The approach is now “table stakes” in the podcast industry.
We have seen several articles and studies recently about the increase in ad loads. Ross noted that while the ad load has increased, it's crucial to maintain a positive listener experience by keeping ads relevant and non-intrusive. He stressed the importance of creative advertising formats and ensuring that ad placements are integrated seamlessly into content.
Revenue may not come from ads. Many organizations say that subscriptions have been a tough road, Dan shared a success story about Canadland, “a small independent newsroom that employs journalists and deliver investigative work nobody else does.” Misener said they have 20,000 paid subscribers, generating over two million dollars (CAD), which is about half their revenue.”
AI and the Future of Content Creation
Artificial Intelligence (AI) plays an increasingly significant role in podcast content creation, particularly in transcription, editing, and even voice cloning. However, the panelists agreed that while AI is a powerful tool, it should not replace the human touch that makes content unique.
Andrew provided valuable insights into using AI, sharing it is best suited for repetitive, labor-intensive tasks that can free up creators to focus on more creative aspects of production.
There was also discussion about the potential for AI to erode authenticity, a key concern as AI tools become more prevalent and better. Dan acknowledged the uncertainty surrounding AI’s impact on cultural trends and consumption behaviors: "We all have no idea where this is all going. "This reflects the broader industry sentiment that while AI offers exciting possibilities, it also poses challenges that need careful consideration, particularly regarding the authenticity and originality of content.
How Descript came about
We see many companies enter the podcast space but grow and morph as the market changes around them. I asked Andrew about the origin of Descript. He is a serial entrepreneur., before he built Descript he founded e-commerce site, Groupon, which was all the rage in 2008. His pivot to audio is interesting. “While I was doing Groupon, I kind of accumulated a backlog of ideas for products that I myself wanted. There are entrepreneurs that can just read the markets and go out and build that stuff. I'm pretty basic and can only build the things that I want. So, one of those things was a more immersive location-based kind of audio tour experience where you would be guided by people that really knew the city. That was the idea for Detour. Half of the company was building a mobile app and the other half of the company was building content. We were basically building glorified audio podcasts. It was slow and tedious work. About that time, transcription was just getting good enough, and we started making all of the tools to enable and improve editing.” Today Descript is a dominant player in the sector. But what became of Detour? “It was purchased by Bose and sitting on a shelf somewhere. “
Our take
We have done 10 of these sessions and each one has been marked by the rapid change of the business. This one, I have to say, felt different. The change seems more pivotal, and maybe even techtonic, driven by technological advancements, changing audience behaviors, and the increasing importance of video content.
Video is increasingly integral to podcasting: Legacy podcasters are being encouraged to embrace video as newer creators prioritize it, with platforms like YouTube and TikTok driving significant engagement among younger audiences. Importantly, video is not right for every podcaster, but it should be on the table.
Multi-platform strategies are essential: Podcasting is no longer just about RSS feeds. Success now requires reaching audiences across diverse platforms, whether through traditional audio or newer video-first approaches.
Engagement vs. Reach: Building a loyal audience is more valuable than chasing traffic. Metrics like time spent listening and return visits offer a more accurate picture of a podcast's long-term potential than simple download numbers.
Monetization is evolving: Dynamic ad insertion and other advanced technologies are now industry standards, allowing for more targeted and effective advertising. How to make money from various platforms is a big and evolving topic. Additionally, subscription models can provide revenue streams for niche, mission-driven content creators.
AI as a powerful production tool: While AI can streamline podcast production by handling repetitive tasks, it should be used carefully to ensure content remains authentic and human-centered.
Adapting to changing audience dynamics: New audiences are engaging with content in fundamentally different ways, necessitating changes in how podcasts are produced and marketed.
The future is uncertain but full of opportunity: As technological innovations and shifting consumption habits continue to reshape the industry, podcasters who remain flexible and responsive to these changes will be best positioned for success.
There was plenty more in the hour long session.
Thanks to Ross, Dan, Elsie, Andrew and Farid.
There was a good deal of room noise during this session, so our transcript was a bit choppy as a result, we lightly edited some of the comments.
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