Podcast Subscriptions Insights with NPR’s Joel Sucherman

Podcast subscriptions are a hot topic with A LOT of speculation about what may happen. The reality is, it’s far too early to know how successful podcasts by subscription will be. The variables are considerable. Podcasts are abundant and free, thus asking people to pay doesn’t, at the outset, appear to be a winning gambit. It can also be a clunky experience figuring out how to pay (at least using Spotify). Even more important is the content. Publishers and creators will need to find the sweet spot of what offerings resonate with people inundated with pitches for streaming services and the elasticity of the credit card.

All that said, there may not be a podcaster in a better position to benefit from subscription podcasts than NPR with a monthly podcast audience of over 20 million among their 47 shows and a long broadcast history of listener donations.

Over the years, no organization has been more thoughtful in launching new audio initiatives.  NPR has been at the forefront of podcasting, from content and monetization to measurement and ancillary audio initiatives like smart speakers.  

During these 10+ years of innovation, NPR’s Vice President for New Platform Partnerships, Joel Sucherman, has led the way. I sat down with him to talk through the potential of podcast subscriptions. 

I’m not sure how subscription podcasting will turn out for most, but it feels like a natural extension for NPR.  

There's a certain amount of love and intense feelings that listeners have for some NPR shows, in the same way that somebody might love the Boston Red Sox or the Chicago Cubs. We've received inquiries for years saying, how can I support the show? Podcast subscription fits squarely into the NPR strategic plan and in at least two of the pillars, which include diversifying and growing revenue models and realizing the power of the local stations and national networks for an on-demand future.

And it's about new revenue for public radio and being able to lift all boats, with podcasts being the center of that relationship.

But let’s be clear, no one must pay for an NPR podcast if they don’t want to. And they can pay ala carte for a single podcast, right? 

It's really important to realize that there's no paywall here. The shows will remain free and sponsorship driven. Subscriptions are an option to listen without interruption and pay a small monthly fee to do that. And NPR is sharing revenue with member stations. Then there's a big second part we're calling “the bundle.” It’s like a PBS passport with all of the NPR podcasts available sponsorship free.

That would be more akin to an HBO Max or Disney+ bundle. 

Yeah. The difference is that you can still get our content for free. The idea is to bundle all this stuff together, and maybe this is more interesting to you than a mug or a tote bag.

Let’s unbundle the bundle.  What is it going to look like?  

First, most NPR Podcasts will be available, sponsorship free, as an exclusive benefit of being a new member of your local NPR member station. In addition to sponsorship free, we expect to offer bonus content. Maybe it's going to be live events with the hosts when we're able to be live again or virtual live events, and maybe it's swag at the NPR shop. We're going to experiment with some things down the road. At launch, it's uninterrupted listening. 

NPR has a big stake in sponsor driven podcasts. It’s driving a lot of the revenue for the organization. Where do you see that going?

Podcasting is still a sponsorship driven economy, and I don't expect that to change. We've seen in other media, certainly television, where people like to see an ad-free model.

I understand it’s early innings, but how do you think this plays out? Do you think people will opt for bundles or individual podcasts?

There will be a certain percentage of folks who just want to subscribe to their one show, or maybe two shows. 

What’s the price point for the bundle versus a single podcast? 

We haven't figured that out yet. We're working with the NPR board on that and the membership committee because we want stations to weigh in. PBS has one model where you get access to a PBS passport. Is that the right model? Or is it allowing stations to set their own price? I don't know. We've settled on $2.99 for a single podcast or $29 99 a year. It’s a starting point and a little bit of a finger in the air. 

Think about this; should “How I Built This” have a different price than another show? If it's a weekly show or five days a week, or if there's additional bonus content? We are exploring it all.  

When Apple clicks the subscription switch, the bundle will not be up and going for NPR at first, correct? It will be individual podcasts? 

That's right.

A few years ago, NPR’s broadcast audience was pretty different from the podcast audience. Different people, different demographics. Is that still the case?  

The overlap of the broadcast and podcast audiences is still relatively small. The driver here for podcast listeners is introducing them to the broader world of public radio and their member station.

My 22-year-old does not listen to the public station near us in Connecticut, but he is listening to NPR podcasts. You haven't had an economic relationship with listeners like him up until this point.

That's exactly right. The fact that your son or anybody who is a podcast listener may not be a radio listener is a broad opportunity to introduce them to new content and potentially local on-demand content too that they might not realize is available from their station.

Today, seemingly every media company wants my credit card. Podcasts have been free. Could these models backfire? And where is the benefit to the consumer? 

As a nonprofit, it's really important to remember that what we do when we get new revenue is funnel it back into the journalism.

That’s a big deal and a better proposition than simply ‘wow, we could make more money if people pay us directly.” Let’s focus for a moment on Spotify. How many shows did you launch with the paywall?

We launched five shows on Spotify on May 4.

So, I went into Spotify and tried to find and subscribe to one of Guy Raz’s podcasts. It was messy. 

Spotify is using its Anchor platform as the mechanism by which listeners subscribe. They're not selling the subscriptions in the Spotify app, so they send listeners to a webpage then bring you back into the app. It's a work in progress. It's early days. 

Screen shot of Spotify app - It can be confusing identifying which podcasts require subscription to listen.

I’ll say. Even the messaging is confusing. It doesn't easily walk people through the process. Even finding the separate feed for Guy’s podcast is hit or miss. I hope it gets better. I’m guessing Apple will be more streamlined.

Easy like buying a song. Even though I know nobody does that anymore. 

For podcaster producers who were producing a single feed, this has to be more confusing with custom feeds for Apple, Spotify, and others.

It puts a fair amount of pressure on our production teams to be able to produce the multiple variants. We hope to work with our technology partners to streamline the process. 

Beyond Apple and Spotify, is there a way to do subscriptions on other apps and services like NPR One, Overcast, Pocket Casts, and Audible?

With Spotify and Apple, you're talking about 60% of the listening to NPR podcasts. That does leave 40%, so we're working with a third-party vendor, Supporting Cast, to enable NPR plus subscriptions elsewhere.  

Change of subject. Let’s move beyond podcast subscriptions for a moment. You and I both like and appreciate voice devices such as smart speakers and have found ourselves at a few conferences. NPR was an early adopter. How is it going with smart speakers?

Coming out of the gate, it was a rocket. A new way of listening. We had listeners who didn't own a radio. The growth was steady. And every time there was an Amazon Prime Day or Christmas, we would see a jump.  

In the early days of the pandemic, we saw a spike in listening, and we see spikes during news events like at the Capitol or during the presidential election. 

Today NPR’s performance mirrors the state of news in general, which is a slight decrease. And I think this is part of the maturation of the devices. Also, people have found the jobs that they're hiring smart speakers to do. But it’s big for us - at least a quarter of the listening to public radio streams happens on smart speakers. That’s significant.

That's a big number. Commercial radio is far less, around 10%. Thanks Joel. Let’s check back together in a few months to see how it’s going with subscriptions.

Sounds great.

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